Time Nick Message
00:02 larsks Geez, I'm reading https://juju.ubuntu.com/ and I still don't know what it does :(.
00:03 JoeJulian I was just thinking the same thing.
00:06 jimi_c well ostensibly it seems like they do very similar things, juju seems more container oriented than app though, which i actually like
00:06 jimi_c more akin to heroku i think
00:06 jimi_c openshift origin, to me, is just very buggy still since it started as closed source and they've had a lot of issues getting the docs opened up
00:08 semiosis i was under the impression juju was config management
00:08 larsks Sounds interesting.
00:08 semiosis but never really looked into it, so what do i know
00:08 jimi_c no, it's a complete deployment system. 1) juju deploy mysql 2) juju deploy wordpress 3) juju associate wordpress mysql <- bam you have an environment in 3 commands
00:08 larsks Yeah, the web page talks about installable components and server orchestration...which sounds less like openshift and more like, I don't know, salt or puppet or something.
00:09 jimi_c "charms" are just pre-packaged components you can deploy. I was digging through the github repo for them today and they seem ridiculously easy to write, very similar to openshift's where you have script hooks that get executed
00:10 larsks I will have to go explore.
00:26 larsks So...yeah, juju looks much more like a configuration management tool than it does like openshift. That is, openshift is an application hosting solution, while juju seems designed to provision virtual instances on a cloud infrastructure of your choice.
00:27 larsks More like envy or vagrant or something.
00:35 jimi_c it's kind of both - it provisions the machine/container and deploys the app
01:31 pdurbin semiosis: you get a gold star for being the first to bring up juju: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/crimsonfu/2012-10-16#i_6068179
01:32 semiosis \o/
01:37 semiosis i'd happily trade in that gold star for some puppet support right now
01:38 semiosis two issues with an exec resource
01:39 semiosis 1. the command is "/foo/bar &> /foo/logs/bar" and when i run that from the command line it's great, but when puppet runs it, /foo/logs/bar gets created but not written to (zero-length)
01:40 semiosis 2. the script, /foo/bar, exits with 0 (success) if apache needs to be reloaded, and exits nonzero if there's no change for apache. the goal is that the exec resource will only notify apache when necessary, but puppet sees any exit status as successful, contrary to the docs :(
01:58 * semiosis asks hard questions :(
01:59 semiosis puppet gives me the same feeling as web development... hacks layered on top of hacks, layered on top of....
01:59 semiosis read the manual, "Oh yeah, that's what i want..." try it, fail, research, find out everyone uses a hackey workaround for the broken feature
02:00 semiosis amazed whenever things work as described
02:00 semiosis cherishing the moment
02:18 semiosis thanks to nevyn in #puppet the solution to both problems is to wrap the command as in: bash -c "/foo/bar &> /foo/logs/bar"
02:19 semiosis doing that lets output direction work and the status code is correctly detected too
02:19 pdurbin_m don't you want onlyif? http://www.puppetcookbook.com/posts/exec-onlyif.html
02:20 pdurbin_m ah. you have a fix. great
02:25 jimi_c isn't there an option for an exec statement to open up a shell?
02:26 semiosis thanks to nevyn in #puppet the solution to both problems is to wrap the command as in: bash -c "/foo/bar &> /foo/logs/bar"
02:26 semiosis (repeated that for pdurbin_m)
02:26 semiosis jimi_c: apparently not?
02:27 semiosis pdurbin_m: re: onlyif, this command runs every time puppet runs, and puppet reads the exit code :)
02:28 jimi_c @semiosis: you can set provider=shell, not sure if that'd work or not but it seems like it would
02:28 crimsonfubot jimi_c: Error: "semiosis:" is not a valid command.
02:29 semiosis jimi_c: ooh
02:29 semiosis hahaha, bots
02:29 jimi_c heh yeah i forget in here sometimes... using @ is an ingrained habit
14:59 pdurbin sjoeboo: i'm asking in ##infra-talk if people use and love RackTables - http://racktables.org
15:10 semiosis pdurbin: ah yes, good point, i could put my script in the onlyif and make the apache reload the main command of this exec
15:11 semiosis that would eliminate the failure-is-normal i had set up
15:11 semiosis much better!
15:11 pdurbin semiosis: see? ;)
15:11 jimi_c i was also curious if provider => shell worked
15:11 semiosis yeah, it was late, i was in a rush... not thinking straight or reading well :O
15:12 semiosis jimi_c: yeah you're spot on with that, i didnt read the provider section!
15:12 semiosis going to try it right now
15:12 semiosis re-read it after you pointed that out and it's clearly the issue with my exec
15:13 semiosis hopefully the provider applies to the onlyif like it does the main command
15:14 jimi_c yeah it should
15:14 semiosis and if it doesnt, bash -c :)
15:15 semiosis nice to have that workaround in my back pocket
15:15 pdurbin absolutely
15:15 pdurbin semiosis: thanks for sharing
15:16 semiosis oh my pleasure, thanks for helping!
15:19 pdurbin sjoeboo: Collins - Infrastructure Management for Engineers - http://tumblr.github.com/collins/ via https://github.com/cwebberops
15:21 sjoeboo looks pretty nice
15:22 sjoeboo but again, wants to be jack of all trades, i just want physical managment (do one things and do it well)
15:22 sjoeboo so many tools now want to do the whole thing
15:22 pdurbin agreed
15:22 pdurbin but let's not write out own :)
15:22 sjoeboo oh, yeah, of course
15:22 pdurbin our
15:27 semiosis jimi_c: provider=>shell does apply to both command & onlyif, however it uses /bin/sh (dash) so my a &> b backgrounded a and created/truncated b... had to change to a > b 2>&1
15:28 semiosis pdurbin: ^^
15:28 jimi_c interesting, yeah i guess if you're on a deb/ubuntu distro, on redhat clones that'd be bash
15:28 pdurbin interesting. semiosis, you have more puppet fu than i do. relative newbie here
15:29 pdurbin i only discovered onlyif because i was trying to download a file onlyif i hadn't already downloaded it :)
15:29 jimi_c you could add a file directive to symlink /bin/sh to /bin/bash, then add an Exec[ requires => thatfile ] in your top level manifest :)
15:29 semiosis pdurbin: ah that's what creates is for
15:29 jimi_c oh puppet hackishness....
15:29 semiosis jimi_c: NO!
15:29 pdurbin semiosis: creates? link?
15:29 semiosis :)
15:30 semiosis pdurbin: http://docs.puppetlabs.com/references/latest/type.html#exec
15:30 semiosis "A file to look for before running the command. The command will only run if the file doesn’t exist."
15:31 pdurbin semiosis: hmm, "creates" seems way better than my terrible hack: https://github.com/pdurbin/dvn-vagrant/tree/master/modules/downloads . thanks!
15:31 semiosis yw
15:33 semiosis ah well your hack actually has some merit... creates only checks for existence, but you're checking that you have the "right" file, which may save you in some weird situations
15:33 pdurbin i got excited when i read "Values can be URIs pointing to remote files" in the "source" part of http://docs.puppetlabs.com/references/latest/type.html#file but "source" won't work for http. there's an issue for this
15:33 semiosis maybe it's possible for wget to fail somehow and leave an empty file with the -O name
15:34 pdurbin Feature #5783: support HTTP(S) URL as the file 'source' - Puppet - Puppet Labs - http://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/5783
15:34 semiosis oh wait you're using -O-, hmmm
15:35 semiosis yeah, iirc source only supports file & puppet schemes
15:35 semiosis been a while since i've looked at that though
15:35 pdurbin would be great if source supported any http download
15:36 semiosis some would say external dependencies like that are bad
15:37 semiosis but i think most people do it anyway (i do too)
15:37 semiosis i have had instances fail to provision because the ubuntu repos are overloaded and i have puppet run apt-get dist-upgrade on first boot :D
15:41 pdurbin well, that's why i'm using stages. eventually stage 1 (download) should be successful and the rest of the provisioning can continue
15:55 larsks Fixed the annoying issue we've been having with OpenStack in which automatically assigned ips take 30 minutes to show up.
15:55 pdurbin larsks: long time to wait!
15:56 larsks Seriously. It made our show-and-tell presentations sort of embarassing ("...and then go get a coffee or something because there's this bug, see...")
15:56 pdurbin lol. poor you :(
15:56 pdurbin glad you found a fix
16:33 simmel Yeah you do pdurbin, antoon_i is a swede = )
16:33 simmel antoon_i: Are there any more channels that you are in that I should hang out in? = )
16:34 pdurbin antoon_i: whoops
16:34 dotplus so currently in this environment, I'm provisioning "by hand" with a process that looks like: create a LUN on the NAS, use virsh pool-{define,refresh} to tell a kvmhost about the new LUN, determine available MAC/IP addresses, modify the dhcpd puppet module, determine cpu/memory availability/requirements, use virt-install to deploy a new VM as far as running puppet which then takes care of the rest.
16:35 dotplus This is great, really it is. It's so far ahead of traditional IT that it's awesome by comparison.
16:35 pdurbin dotplus: yes, we remember, vaguely ;)
16:35 dotplus But it still feels rather behind the curve.
16:35 pdurbin jimi_c: dotplus needs cobbler or similar
16:36 * pdurbin gets a ton of mileage out of `koan` - kickstart over a network
16:36 pdurbin crimsonfubot: lucky cobbler koan
16:36 dotplus I think the next step is automating the provisioning of network/storage/deployment and I'm not sure whether that's cobbler or mumblestack or something.
16:36 crimsonfubot pdurbin: http://linux.die.net/man/1/koan
16:37 pdurbin crimsonfubot: lucky mumblestack
16:37 crimsonfubot pdurbin: http://cs.nyu.edu/courses/fall10/V22.0101-001/Lectures/LinkedLists/Eval5.java
16:37 pdurbin bad crimsonfubot
16:37 dotplus ha, by that I just meant Cloudstack/opentstack/whatever.
16:38 pdurbin oh
16:45 pdurbin good crimsonfubot
17:15 dotplus wow, the cobbler manual on github is rather incomplete. several empty stubs and so on.
17:58 pdurbin dotplus: on the plus side, it's better than it was, thanks to jimi_c
17:59 dotplus I'm not complaining, free software and all that. scratch your own itch, patches welcome.
17:59 dotplus was just _surprised_ becuase cobbler has been around so long that I would find so many holes in just a cursory glance.
18:01 pdurbin it was kind of abandoned until jimi_c picked it up
18:02 dotplus because dehaan moved on from RH?
18:03 dotplus has he dropped out cobbler? is anyone still maintaining it?
18:04 * jimi_c is maintaining it
18:04 jimi_c :)
18:04 dotplus ah, I thought pdurbin was just referring to the docs.
18:05 jimi_c nope, i'm the lead maintainer, since march
18:05 pdurbin nope. at the red hat summit in july i asked a question about cobbler after a talk. next to me was some guy with a #cobbler hat. i told him about #crimsonfu :)
18:05 jimi_c mpdehaan came back briefly in november of last year, but quickly decided he had too much going on to be the lead again, so i volunteered and no one objected :)
18:06 dotplus sucker. I mean, "Cool, thanks!"
18:06 jimi_c no, i agree with the sucker part :)
18:15 JoeJulian I'm sure glad I didn't have openstack in production when the folsom update went live in epel. There's some serious upgrade bugs and just plain ol' incompatibilities. I'm surprised folsom was allowed in epel, actually.
18:17 larsks ME TOO.
18:18 larsks And in fact if you would take the time to post that to epel-devel-list@redhat.com the world would be a better place :).
18:37 pdurbin larsks: yikes! An un-Folsom morning - https://www.redhat.com/archives/epel-devel-list/2012-November/msg00037.html
18:40 pdurbin one nice thing about repoforge is that they keep all the copies of their old packages in their repo
18:48 pdurbin anyway, i sympathize with it being tough to roll back with epel
18:52 larsks Yes. I'm surprised there aren't more people on the list complaining about the update.
18:52 larsks I've built my own essex repository and disabled epel on these hosts, but geez, what a clusterf*ck.
18:55 JoeJulian There, that should about cover it.
18:56 pdurbin larsks: could you use this one? http://repos.fedorapeople.org/repos/openstack/openstack-essex/epel-6/
18:56 JoeJulian And that (in reverse) is how it should have been done.
18:58 larsks pdurbin: That's where I got most of my packages from.
18:59 larsks But I'm keepin' em local this time.
18:59 pdurbin larsks: good idea :)
19:00 larsks JoeJulian: Thanks :)
19:01 JoeJulian I'm just glad I wasn't that far along. I can just wipe my systems and start over.
19:02 pdurbin JoeJulian: ah, you must be referring to this post you just made: https://www.redhat.com/archives/epel-devel-list/2012-November/msg00049.html . well said
19:03 JoeJulian I probably typed a message three times that long, but I'm a pretty good editor. :D
19:04 pdurbin semiosis: maybe it's *all* hacks layered on top of hacks ;)
19:04 semiosis well yeah, except for *my* code :)
19:04 pdurbin :)
19:16 JoeJulian At least you get an apology, larsks.