Time Nick Message 00:15 prologic interesting :) 00:17 pdurbin hydrajump and codex: please welcome prologic, a fellow docker user 00:17 pdurbin larsks: and pythonista 00:18 pdurbin creator of http://circuitsframework.com 00:18 prologic Thanks pdurbin :) 00:19 pdurbin prologic: so you sound pretty interested in dox: http://irclogs.shortcircuit.net.au/%23circuits/2014-11-14.log.html#t00:12:00 00:19 pdurbin searchbot: lucky dox docker 00:19 searchbot pdurbin: http://blog.chmouel.com/2014/09/08/dox-a-tool-that-run-python-or-others-tests-in-a-docker-container/ 00:19 pdurbin searchbot: lucky dox docker pypi 00:19 searchbot pdurbin: https://pypi.python.org/pypi/dox/9f33ae5 00:21 prologic hehe 00:21 * prologic pats searchbot 00:21 prologic nice bot :) 00:22 pdurbin yeah. and ilbot3 does the logging but it isn't mine 00:22 prologic *nods* 00:23 prologic hmm 00:23 prologic it's one of those things really 00:23 prologic I could write my own CI 00:23 prologic using circuits ofc 00:23 prologic but do I have to? :) 00:24 pdurbin we use jenkins at work 00:24 prologic *nods* 00:24 prologic I've used it before too 00:25 prologic and built CRUX based Docker images for it 00:25 prologic and had a whole setup that worked quite wel for circuits 00:25 prologic but I haven't maintained it anywhere useful as such 00:25 prologic mainly due to lack of infrastructure 00:25 prologic but I may put it back up on DO maybe 00:25 prologic or see how Drone's development pans out 00:25 prologic thing is; neither Jenkins or Drone would suffice here 00:26 prologic because CRUX's ports are in "collections" 00:26 prologic so for example core, opt, xorg, contrib, etc 00:26 prologic are collections of ports (each a repo) 00:27 prologic so you can't just detect a change in that repo and run dox on it without elaborate commands in the dox.yml that try to work out what port(s) changed and rebuild those 00:36 pdurbin prologic: sorry, I was staring at a Java stacktrace and wanted to send it off 00:38 prologic hehe 00:38 pdurbin searchbot: lucky crux port package 00:38 searchbot pdurbin: http://crux.nu/Main/Handbook3-0 00:39 pdurbin so this uses BSD ports, basically? 00:42 prologic https://pypi.python.org/pypi/utmp 00:42 prologic ^^^ cool :) 00:42 prologic BSD ports? 00:42 prologic yeah sort of 00:43 prologic some of CRUX's inspiration probably came from *BSD 00:43 prologic https://bitbucket.org/prologic/ports/ 00:43 prologic for a sample of my personal collection 00:43 prologic Also if it wasn't obvious before 00:44 prologic I want to do this for CRUX+Docker 00:44 prologic So I maintain official images of CRUX in the Docker Official Library 00:44 prologic namely "crux" versions 3.1 and 3.0 00:44 prologic i.e: current and previous veriojn 00:45 prologic my goal would be that crux/base (crux as the org and crux/base based on crux) adds pkg-get (our simple binary package manager and a default uri that points to where the CI publishes built packages) 00:50 pdurbin wow. that's a lot of ports you maintain 00:51 pdurbin what do you do for CI now? 00:51 prologic oh we don't 00:52 prologic we collectively as a community keep things tested and up-to-date 00:52 prologic it's the testing and publishing part(s) I want to automate 00:53 * pdurbin likes automation 00:53 prologic Also you should checkout a new project 00:53 prologic https://bitbucket.org/prologic/dcm 00:53 prologic little side project I quickly wrote up 2 weekends ago 00:55 pdurbin "dcm is a command-line tool to manage Docker' Hosts". cool 00:58 prologic yeah 00:58 prologic you can just do (for example): 00:59 prologic dcm create 00:59 prologic wait a minute or so 00:59 prologic and it prints the ip address of the new node 01:00 prologic the next couple of things I wanted to do are: 01:00 prologic some way of easily using/connecting to these remote docker hosts/nodes 01:00 prologic maybe a docker wrapper as such 01:00 prologic or an easy way to export the "right env vars" 01:00 prologic eval $(dcm env ) 01:01 prologic could be pretty nice 01:01 prologic then any docker or fig or whatever would work as expected against that host 01:01 prologic but maybe it might be even nicer to go virtualenvwrapper style 01:01 prologic dcm workon 01:01 prologic sets up the right env vars and launahces a shell 01:01 prologic when you exit the shell you go back to your original shell 01:02 prologic the only thing I'm tossing up between 01:02 pdurbin I've recently gotten into workon/deactivate. very nice 01:02 prologic is whether ot use Docker's new TLS/SSL stuff and expose the Docker Remote API over TCP 01:02 prologic or to just simply setup an SSH tunnel when you do: dcm workon 01:02 prologic I'm unsure of the pros/cons 01:03 prologic setting up TLS/SSL with the Docker Remote API though is *NOT* trivial 01:03 prologic I guess I could just try it? :) 01:03 prologic searchbot, lucky docker-tunnel pypi 01:03 searchbot prologic: https://github.com/tonyseek/docker-tunnel 01:03 prologic See ^^^ 01:03 prologic Was going to rip that off or use it or boror iw, etc 01:04 prologic it does the ssh tunnel thing I mentioned 01:04 prologic looks like I could even use it as a library 01:04 pdurbin cool 01:04 prologic so 01:04 prologic dcm workon it is then? :) 01:07 pdurbin oh, I don't know. I'm interested in Docker but I haven't really used it in anger yet. 01:08 pdurbin prologic: did I show you https://github.com/IQSS/plaid ? 01:08 pdurbin I could maybe see using Docker for that some day. 01:09 prologic hmm 01:09 prologic not much there :) 01:09 prologic not sure what it's "going to be" 01:10 pdurbin oh, if you click the Google Doc 01:10 pdurbin it's Python-y so I thought you might be interested 01:11 prologic ahh i see 01:11 pdurbin right now we deploy to CentOS 01:11 pdurbin but I guess it could be whatever 01:11 prologic but that could easily be Docker containers based on CentOS 01:11 pdurbin sure 01:11 prologic not that the underlying distro matters at all 01:12 prologic I'm looking forward to when Docker get to a point where we can separate out build-time from run-time 01:12 pdurbin well, CentOS 6 is what our Ops guys give us 01:12 prologic which will result in images that just contain the application and runtime 01:12 prologic nothing else 01:12 prologic it won't even look like a distro file system 01:12 prologic we can already do this right now - but by hand 01:13 prologic it's a two step process 01:13 prologic build a docker image that builds an application and it's run-time, then export that out into a tarball, then import that into a new image 01:19 prologic https://github.com/docker/docker/issues/7115 01:20 pdurbin huh. nested builds 01:22 prologic https://github.com/docker/docker/issues/7149 01:22 prologic I kind of like the 2nd proposal better 01:22 prologic ihmo 01:22 prologic https://github.com/docker/docker/pull/8021 01:22 prologic which looks to be a current PR 01:47 pdurbin do most people who use docker host on their own boxes they set up? or do they use some kind of heroku of the docker world? 01:47 hydrajump hi prologic 01:48 hydrajump pdurbin: you should check out the past 2 days announcements from AWS. Especially today's releases ;) 01:48 pdurbin searchbot: lucky aws announcements 01:48 searchbot pdurbin: http://aws.amazon.com/new/ 01:48 pdurbin hmm. http://aws.amazon.com/about-aws/whats-new/2014/11/13/introducing-amazon-ec2-container-service/ 01:49 hydrajump https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/cloud-container-management 01:49 pdurbin semiosis: do you use this stuff? 01:49 hydrajump pdurbin: it's not widely available yet. You have to sign up for a preview 01:50 pdurbin right. "preview" at http://aws.amazon.com/ecs/ 01:50 hydrajump lots of exciting stuff :D 01:51 pdurbin neat 01:52 hydrajump also I saw your CI discussion earlier...this is one of 3 new services...https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/aws/code-management-and-deployment 02:01 pdurbin nice. I mean, I'm not very familiar with AWS but I could see people liking this. 02:02 prologic pdurbin, because Docker is still relatively new 02:02 prologic a lot of folk use their own Infrastructure 02:02 prologic But players like Tutum and Amazon are making this less of an issue 02:02 prologic I tend to like to use my own Infrastructure though 02:06 pdurbin but at least the containers should be portable. you could start on AWS or your own kit and move the containers around 02:09 pdurbin LyndsySimon: check out this Flask thing: http://lucumr.pocoo.org/2012/8/5/stateless-and-proud/ 02:14 prologic images 02:15 prologic but yes :) 02:16 prologic hmm 02:16 prologic I guess circuits.web has been able to do this for quite some time 02:16 prologic even without the help of redis :) 02:21 pdurbin prologic: somehow I was wondering if you'd say that :) 02:22 pdurbin via http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-11-13#t1415930129795 02:25 * prologic reads 02:28 prologic https://gist.github.com/78185bea0ec976ece439 02:41 pdurbin cool 03:16 prologic proof of concept works :) 03:16 prologic I'll clean it up and add the new feature 03:17 prologic dcm workon 05:33 prologic https://gist.github.com/bb095843dbf63f1a3fe3 05:36 codex prologic: welcome :) 05:44 prologic hi :) 06:09 bear pdurbin - I run a static site for indieweb but also have behind nginx a flask app for webmention handling and indieauth handling 11:53 pdurbin bear: ah. nice. I just know LyndsySimon works on one too 14:15 LyndsySimon pdurbin: We seem to be settling on using Tornado for apps that need push/pull. Flask works well enough, but when you start scaling horizontally the limitations of how LocalProxy objects start to become much more apparent. 14:18 pdurbin hmm. ok 14:18 pdurbin so far I only have very limited experience with Django 14:46 LyndsySimon I worked with Django some several years ago, but haven't touched it since then. I want to say I was using version 0.97 at the time, if that tells you anything :) 14:47 LyndsySimon I have a side project that I've been writing in Flask, but realized a few days ago that I'm basically re-implemented Django's auth and admin interfaces. I'm seriously considering moving that to Django in the next week or so. 15:01 pdurbin oh, we've done some of our own auth in Java for sure 17:16 semiosis pdurbin: i've not used anything containerish yet 17:24 pdurbin semiosis: but now you can since it's on AWS :) 17:24 semiosis how do containers fit in an immutable infrastructure? 21:12 prologic LyndsySimon, you could consider circuits.web :) 21:13 prologic semiosis, immutable infrastructure? 21:14 semiosis @lucky immutable infrastructure 21:14 semiosis @#&$*(^)@# 21:14 semiosis searchbot: version 21:14 searchbot semiosis: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information. 21:14 semiosis bwahahahah 21:15 semiosis prologic: basically building a golden image for a server then deploying clusters from that image 21:15 prologic ic 21:15 semiosis prologic: not updating existing servers with new deploys or config changes, but rather replacing them with new servers from a new golden image 21:16 prologic by server I assume you mean app/service in the context of Docker? 21:16 prologic the convention is that a Docker image usually runs one thing or one kind of thing 21:16 semiosis i mean precisely EC2 instances 21:16 semiosis i dont see how docker fits into that picture 21:16 prologic ic 21:16 prologic ihmo Docker would repalce the whole concept of EC2 instnaces 21:17 prologic AFAIK AWS are introducing native Docker support anyway 21:17 prologic to complement their EC2 offerings 21:18 semiosis guess i'll have to read up ont hat 21:18 prologic *nods* 21:19 prologic in any case the whole notion of immutable infrastructure as you call it is already (and has always been) quite possible with Docker - in fact there is no other way really :) 21:19 prologic and I think that's one of the greater appeals :) 21:19 semiosis interesting 21:19 prologic reproducible repeatable infrastructure 21:20 prologic I've been using Docker since 0.7 :) 21:20 semiosis on your own hardware? 21:21 prologic *nods* 21:22 semiosis ah 21:22 prologic I now also run it on DO 21:22 prologic https://bitbucket.org/prologic/dcm 21:22 semiosis we run in ec2, so i'm v. interested in reducing complexity & cost there. if docker can help, great, i just havent any idea how it would 21:22 prologic I wrote this because I couldn't wait for host management to come in Docker 21:22 prologic which is coming really soon :) 21:23 semiosis nice 21:23 prologic I think IHMO AWS will take up Docker fully and whole heartedly 21:23 prologic they simply can't ignore it 21:23 prologic it's lightweight virtualization essentially 21:23 prologic full blown VM(s) might just die off for the most part :) 21:23 prologic haha 21:24 prologic except in special use-cases where a full hypervisor is required 21:24 semiosis windows :( 21:24 prologic bbs - going out 21:24 semiosis later 21:24 prologic even Windows can be Dockerized 21:24 semiosis oh wow 21:24 prologic a Docker container/image runing kvm/qemu in privielged mode 21:24 prologic done :) 21:24 semiosis neat 22:13 LyndsySimon prologic: I just read all the docs for circuits.web. My mind is currently blown, but I think I like what I see so far. 22:29 LyndsySimon Is there a name for the architecture for which circuits is designed? I've obviously used MVC (and derivatives) in the past, and while that would work here it doesn't seem natural. It almost feels like what I would think of as a model should be a complex component itself. 23:02 pdurbin LyndsySimon: well, apparently it's not MVC: "circuits.web does not provide high level features such as... Model View Controller" http://circuits.readthedocs.org/en/latest/web/features.html 23:02 LyndsySimon Right - but you could implement it, if you wanted. 23:03 pdurbin yeah. seems very flexible 23:47 prologic LyndsySimon, yes - Component Architecture 23:48 prologic precisely 23:48 prologic If you want the whole MVC shebang, go right ahead :) 23:49 prologic for the most port, myself and other users get away with Controller(s) (we do provide a simple Component for that), Templates and JS/CSS :) 23:49 prologic but yeah ideally your application should be comprised of composable components really :) 23:52 prologic here's probably two examples of reuseable components in the context of circuits.web (dataconv the project itself is/was an experimental cli data transformer and I later toyed with the idea of making it web enabled): 23:52 prologic auth.py: https://bitbucket.org/prologic/dataconv/src/ed47d8914ccd8f6e4d406d0dd2f8d76487e3d7be/auth.py?at=default 23:53 prologic server.py: https://bitbucket.org/prologic/dataconv/src/ed47d8914ccd8f6e4d406d0dd2f8d76487e3d7be/server.py?at=default 23:53 prologic the more interesting components are probably JinjaRendere, Authentication and LoginManager