Time Nick Message 12:25 melodie hi 12:25 melodie I have just been told about puphpet, to be used in a vagrant machine 12:25 melodie melodie: the idea is that you create a VM and all your webserver (or whatever deployable) project you make inside of it. Database, apps, stuff like that, so you don't need to install in your machine. And with puphpet you can easilly deploy too. 12:25 melodie this is at #ubuntu 12:29 melodie https://puphpet.com/ 12:33 pdurbin melodie: I use puppet and vagrant to demo our app: https://github.com/dvn/dvn-install-demo 12:34 melodie hi pdurbin ! 12:34 pdurbin o/ 12:35 melodie I does not look that hard, I should give it a try 12:35 pdurbin melodie: yes! please try it :) 12:35 melodie do you install puphpet in the vagrant machine? Is that the way it works? 12:35 melodie not yet, but at some time perhaps soon 12:35 pdurbin vagrant is already installed in the vagrant "base box" 12:35 pdurbin er 12:36 pdurbin puppet is already installed in the vagrant "base box" (sorry) 12:36 melodie I need to try openerp and have to install postgresql to make it work 12:36 melodie oh so 12:36 melodie puppet or puphpet ? 12:37 melodie and I would also need to have a lamp server independant from my current install, that would be handy 12:37 melodie do you think I could make a vagrant machine out of Bento? 12:37 melodie bento being a 12.04.4 (lts up to date) that could be handy for me 12:44 pdurbin heh. puppet 12:52 melodie hi again 12:52 melodie I have rebooted to get the configuration of the usb headset work with alsa : that worked 12:53 melodie someone here is keen with udev rules? 12:54 melodie at boot I get this: 12:54 melodie udevd[625]: failed to execute '/lib/udev/mtp-probe' 'mtp-probe /sys/devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:1d.2/usb4/4-1 4 2': No such file or directory 12:58 melodie rebooting 14:46 pdurbin help me #crimsonfu! http://irclog.greptilian.com/javaee/2014-03-20#i_64690 15:45 sivoais pdurbin: if it is something they have to restart, why not check if those are done on startup? 15:48 pdurbin well, it's not really about restarting things... 15:48 pdurbin "what's the best way to communicate things to your team such as: 1. run this SQL script after you pull the latest code. 2. drop this new schema.xml file into place after you pull the latest code. 3. drop your database and create a fresh database after pulling the latest code. ?" 15:52 pdurbin does that make sense? 15:54 sivoais pdurbin: is there some sort of versioning stored somewhere in the configuration? 15:55 sivoais because it would make sense to compare against that to know when someone is running an upgrade 15:57 sivoais that combined with a new file (like UPGRADE.2014-03-20) and mailing list / blog post would make the most sense to me 15:59 pdurbin everything is in git 16:29 pdurbin sivoais: that's effectively what we're trying. a new file per breaking change. but we're trying it in Google Docs 16:29 pdurbin "we're experimenting with a folder in Google Drive. made a breaking change? create a doc. everyone has applied the fix locally? delete the doc" 16:33 sivoais ah, I saw that in the logs. Google Docs as a way to get feedback? 16:38 pdurbin no. as a way to communicate when you latest code requires action from the rest of the dev team to get their dev environments working again 16:44 pdurbin because of a breaking change. need to run an sql script or whatever. or update your solr schema.xml 18:42 skay pdurbin: you could create tasks in your tracker that are subtasks of a containing task, and assign all the devs a task 18:43 skay pdurbin: I'm guessing you need a stopgap until you find some way to automate stuff? 18:44 skay I'm on a team that communicates information via google docs and it is driving me crazy 18:48 skay i used jira before. issues could block other issues 18:50 semiosis i was a big fan of google docs until a couple weeks ago when they abruptly deleted one of our collaborative docs for an unspecified TOS violation 18:51 semiosis our requests for review went unanswered 18:51 semiosis fuck google docs 18:51 semiosis the doc in question was a form with questions we use for QA testing our mobile apps 18:51 semiosis absolutely not a TOS violation 19:19 skay I like the art in the mediagoblin campaign that makes internet drones that remind me of google style elements http://mediagoblin.org/news/do-something-about-censorship.html 19:19 skay I think he could have done that with the big eye too 19:21 pdurbin skay: well, dropping your database completely always works. but yeah, the setup to get workign again is not completely automated yet 19:23 skay I wrote a script for myself called smashdb. hulk smash 19:23 skay dropdb! makedb! psql thingees! 19:23 skay haven't automated all of that yet 19:25 skay ... do you ever get asked to do things that are almost like painting bikesheds more more like being asked to put a screen door inside of a hatch in a submarine? 19:25 pdurbin um 19:25 skay that was apropos nothing 19:25 pdurbin :) 19:28 pdurbin yeah, i have a dropdb script too 19:29 pdurbin maybe this is just part of greenfield development. or agile. lots of things changing under you 19:29 pdurbin trying to build a house while the foundation was just poured and is still wet 19:44 skay I don't know how much you are changing going from 3 to 4, but I know at my old job we changed out the travel platfrom from behind classic Orbitz and it was quiet challenging at times 19:44 skay at first we had no good process and it was "death march" 19:45 skay later on people learned and got more sane and started trying to borrow methodologies from here and there 19:45 skay with varying degrees of success 19:46 pdurbin skay: did you know there's a book called "Death March" about software? 19:46 skay anyway, we ended up with multiple environments with different things and having to do some lock step stuff from time to time when making major revs 19:46 skay pdurbin: YES OMG 19:46 skay that's where know the term from 19:46 skay I haven't read hte entire book yet 19:46 skay I tend to pick up non fiction books and read for a while and then pick up another and so on 19:47 skay as opposed to loosing myself in novels until I am done with them 19:47 pdurbin I discovered this recently on Google+: https://plus.google.com/+PhilipDurbin/posts/KmDWQrbvjm7 19:47 pdurbin this is the book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_march_%28project_management%29 19:47 pdurbin I haven't read it but I did find that wikipedia page interesting 19:48 skay pdurbin: I confess that I have imposter syndrome so horribly that I often day dream that I should just quit and get a different career 19:48 skay Or I day dream that one day I am independently wealthy and can go cocoon and do programming for fun and not at any job 19:49 skay I have imposter syndrome so horribly that I am even afraid of interviewing prospective employees. I was barely working up to that orbitz. 19:50 skay I was interesting in helping to interview people but was so nervous that I avoid it 19:52 skay nice post 19:53 skay pdurbin: more classical books for you: Mythical Man Month. 19:53 skay Peoplesoft 19:53 skay I really hate the Real Programmer meme 19:55 skay I grew up in an economically depressed region and I care fuck all if people want to program to make money versus programming because the get warm fuzzies 19:56 skay it's so incredibly pretentious to devalue the former 19:56 pdurbin I've heard good things about Mythical Man Month. I think that's where the "you can't get a baby in 1 month with 9 women" idea comes from 19:56 skay could be 19:58 semiosis close... i think the analogy would be that it takes *longer* than 9 months to get a baby with more than one woman 19:58 semiosis ;) 19:59 skay pdurbin: from your shared post " if they want to really be good they have to do more than just what it required in class. They need to have a side project. I truly believe that to be the case." 19:59 semiosis MMM thesis is that adding labor to a late project makes it later 19:59 skay here's my college experience -- blue collar parents didn't give me any money, so I went to school part time and worked part time. I spent outside time hanging out in a cognitive psychology lab 20:00 skay one of my cs profs asked me if I would consider working in his lab but I turned him down because I would have been making a lot less than my job in the IT department 20:01 skay real people do not always have the luxory to be real programmers -- maybe they have to spend time paying their way instead 20:01 skay at least the IT job involved me doing flunky stuff in operations and learning perl 20:01 skay I think I learned more useful things from that than from many of my classes 20:03 skay semiosis: it is hilarious when people who know about this book and admit it do still try to add more people to get a lte project going 20:03 skay late 20:05 skay pdurbin: did you see the reproducibility paper that this is in reaction to? http://cs.brown.edu/~sk/Memos/Examining-Reproducibility/ 20:12 semiosis i got a lot out of the theory courses... how to reason about security protocols, modeling communications channels, queueing, etc 20:12 semiosis best programming course i took was AI in which I learned lisp 20:13 semiosis really learned lisp from a book 20:13 semiosis but for that course 20:13 semiosis imho just doing the required work for classes isn't enough 20:14 semiosis it's necessary but not sufficient to be a good/great developer 20:25 pdurbin semiosis: should I learn clojure? 20:25 pdurbin skay: sorry, doing real work 20:25 skay scala 20:25 semiosis clojure! 20:25 semiosis no scala 20:26 skay erlang! 20:26 semiosis i leared common lisp 20:26 semiosis if clojure had existed 10 years ago i'd have done that instead of CL 20:26 pdurbin I don't know any lisp. but I was thinking about learning some clojure 20:26 semiosis definitely 20:27 semiosis i learned lisp but i never wrote practical programs in lisp... lisp changed how i write code in all languages, esp. java 20:28 semiosis i'm a much better dev (in all languages) for learning lisp 20:28 semiosis it forces you to think bottom up 20:28 semiosis which is quite different from most languages 20:28 pdurbin yeah 20:31 semiosis it's also nice how recursion is more natural than iteration in lisp 20:33 semiosis in any problem you can not solve, there is a simpler problem you also can not solve 20:38 pdurbin sing it 20:48 semiosis ♬ in any problem you can not solve, there is a simpler problem you also can not solve ♬ 21:45 pdurbin_m semiosis: lol. that was worth saving: https://plus.google.com/107770072576338242009/posts/N77RpSX3DER :) 21:46 semiosis ha 22:09 pdurbin finally getting some real answers back in ##javaee :)