Time  Nick      Message
00:00 melodie   what's up ?
00:03 pdurbin   I made a post to #ubuntu-women-project today: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/03/21/%23ubuntu-women-project.html
00:04 pdurbin   about the "Forking and Dongle Jokes Don’t Belong At Tech Conferences" thing from PyCon
00:15 melodie   what is the central idea about it ?
00:18 pdurbin   well, if people misbehave in public, is it ok to take a picture of them and post it on twitter?
00:19 pdurbin   this might be more on topic for another IRC channel of mine... http://spanworm.com
00:20 melodie   ok for whom ? for the people who post, the ones who read, or the one who misbehaves ?
00:20 melodie   pdurbin your chan, your topic :)
00:21 melodie   pdurbin I'll also ask one more : how well known are the ones who misbehaved ? ^^
00:21 melodie   that's how people are
00:21 melodie   they can make fun from anything...
00:21 melodie   (thinking about the former French president in France)
00:22 melodie   pdurbin tell me more about this Tech Conferences ?
00:30 pdurbin   PyCon is a Python conference
00:31 pdurbin   it hit my radar the other day because I saw this: "Holy effing crap. We're over 20% women. #pycon #pyladies" -- https://twitter.com/roguelynn/status/313319776149729280
00:31 pdurbin   which I thought was really cool
00:32 pdurbin   but then a day or two later there was this weird incident with the twitter picture and the misbehavior. the guy lost his job over it, it sounds like
00:33 jsh       pdurbin: SendGrid let Adria Richards go too
00:34 pdurbin   jsh: interesting. I hadn't heard that
00:35 jsh       http://bit.ly/ZCt0gi
00:36 jsh       I'm not endorsing that particular article about it, btw, just the first google hit when I searched just now
00:36 jsh       :)
00:36 pdurbin   wow. less than 24 hours after she tweeted "Hey @mundanematt, it's clear from the last 24 hours you're a bully. @SendGrid supports me. Stop trolling." at https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/314452708549603328
00:37 pdurbin   right. yeah
00:37 pdurbin   I've been trying to be very careful about discussing it
00:37 pdurbin   I'm still mulling the whole thing over
00:38 jsh       Same here.  It's an important topic to discuss, but I doubt I'll have enough information to feel like I could pass judgement on anyone involved.
00:38 melodie   isn't that some personal griefs made public ?
00:38 pdurbin   yeah, will probably never have enough information
00:39 pdurbin   melodie: I think her write up of the situtation is probably pretty accurate: http://butyoureagirl.com/14015/forking-and-dongle-jokes-dont-belong-at-tech-conferences/
00:39 jsh       but I have spent a little time thinking about what I'd do if one of them worked for me, etc.
00:40 pdurbin   I've been thinking what it would take for me to take pictures and post them like that... if I witnessed some police brutality, I suppose
00:41 jsh       for me, basically, it comes down to this: all three involved were there wearing conference sponsor badges, being paid to represent their employers
00:42 jsh       and if it were my company, I'd expect them to act professionally
00:42 jsh       whether that happened in this case is unclear, I suppose
00:42 pdurbin   good point
00:43 jsh       and yeah, I'd reserve my photo taking to police abusing their power...twitter shaming seems a little like anon doxing, mobs with pitchforks, etc.
00:45 pdurbin   hmm, I just read the apology from the guy at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681 and it sounds really sincere
00:46 melodie   I haven't finished reading that page and looking into word dictionnary to get the meaning of each and every word I don't know yet, but it seems to me that it takes some courage to do as she has done
00:48 pdurbin   absolutely it took courage. but was it the right thing to do? that's what I'm struggling with
00:48 pdurbin   I hate all the sexism surrounding the tech industry. it drives me crazy
00:51 jsh       I agree it took courage as well.  one of the developers I work with linked to this http://bit.ly/XtvCut today as counterpoint to Adria's blog post.  His tone is a little strong, IMO, but the reasoning is fairly solid
00:52 melodie   this is a topic which goes beyond tech really
00:53 melodie   I have been living in France since my childhood, was brought up here and live here almost all the time. I am in the south; I have been invited to a conference related to "the rights of women"
00:54 melodie   the lady who talked during that conference belongs to some ministry, where they try to study, evaluate, and make things change little by little. many things are considered:
00:54 melodie   the possibility for both men and women to get vacation when they become parents, try to think about laws to make it more equal, about the salaries for the same tasks and about books
00:55 melodie   all kind of books
00:55 melodie   and ads as well
00:55 pdurbin   sounds like a good conference
00:55 melodie   one family in Canada, playing scrabble, while searching for some words in a dictionnary, realize that:
00:56 melodie   a boy is "a hero" while a girl is "pretty", "naughty" and many more. so they started to look at the examples for adjectives, and they were amazed about that
00:57 melodie   then some people read about this story and looked into dictionnaries in Belgium, France, and saw about the same mode
00:57 melodie   I was thinking about something else...
00:57 melodie   yes
00:57 melodie   in school
00:57 pdurbin   in English boys are made of snips and snails and puppy dog tails, while girls are made of sugar and spice and everthing nice
00:58 melodie   during the conference, a young guy commented about what he saw in the books in high school in maths
00:58 melodie   :D
00:58 melodie   about math books
00:59 melodie   all the famous theories which related to a man have a frame next with a small biography of these men, while when one theorem is from a women, no frame can be seen about her biography
01:00 pdurbin   strange
01:00 melodie   sorry if I don't have all the vocabulary to transmit... that was just incredible to hear, so many things in the current life where sexism is inserted
01:00 melodie   I have to seek for a few words, I don't now what snips is
01:00 pdurbin   heh. me neither :)
01:00 pdurbin   it's just what we say :)
01:01 pdurbin   jsh: I saw your mention of http://jerichoattrition.wordpress.com/2013/03/21/all-this-over-a-dongle/ ... long but i'll read it later. thanks
01:01 melodie   strange
01:03 pdurbin   I wonder if there will be any lawsuits over any of this. the pycon incident
01:04 melodie   has one of the guy's being really fired ?
01:06 pdurbin   according to this both guys worked at the same company but only one was fired: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/03/21/%23ubuntu-women-project.html#t13:22
01:09 pdurbin   melodie: what were you saying about the French president?
01:10 melodie   the former president has had a conduct high above many misbehaviors
01:10 melodie   so there is lots of laugh about him on youtube for instance
01:11 melodie   and a great lack of elegance in many occasions
01:11 melodie   the words I have in mind about him are far from being polite
01:12 melodie   not even speaking about politics... just the way of acting and talking publicly
01:12 pdurbin_m :)
01:16 melodie   humm
01:16 melodie   http://linux.slashdot.org/story/13/03/21/2235251/canonical-and-china-announce-ubuntu-collaboration?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium=feed
01:17 pdurbin   hmm, good for ubuntu
01:21 pdurbin   Automate ALL THE THINGS - DevFest SV | nags of a similar ilk | kitt hodsden rocks! - http://kitt.hodsden.org/talks/devfestsv-automate
01:21 pdurbin   that link was described by Kevin Marks as "lifehacker for nerds" at http://twit.tv/show/this-week-in-google/190
01:21 pdurbin   lots of command line goodies, etc.
01:22 pdurbin   they called this site out in particular, which I hadn't heard of: alias.sh | Manage, share and source your aliases online. - http://alias.sh
01:26 melodie   cool !
01:27 melodie   sure they would love to know about it at linuxvillage
01:27 melodie   the beta linuxvillage...
01:33 melodie   good afternoon !
01:47 pdurbin   jsh: I dunno, that article was fine. I'm not 100% on board with it though. seems to say she's completely in the wrong
01:47 pdurbin   and maybe she is, i dunno. as we've already said we'll probably never have enough information
01:48 pdurbin   the article did link to the statement of her termination, which was interesting: http://blog.sendgrid.com/sendgrid-statement/
01:48 pdurbin   "As we continue to process the vast amount of information, we will post something more comprehensive."
01:50 jsh       ah, that's interesting, something direct from the employer is cool, so often employers are silent when they let someone go
01:55 pdurbin   I don't envy SendGrid right now, or the employer of the guys
01:56 pdurbin   all the people involved seem to be pretty young, judging by their pictures
02:13 * pdurbin looks up "doxing" ... http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/doxing
14:46 pdurbin   overheard: "if Harvard goes all the way..." #marchmadness
21:23 semiosis  PKI has key ceremonies; WOT has key signing parties.
21:27 pdurbin   party on