Time Nick Message 10:08 pdurbin I really wish I could go to this tonight: Boston OpenStack User Group Meetup Wednesday, May 16, 2012 6:30 PM, Harvard University, Maxwell Dworkin Building, Rm 119, 33 Oxford St, Cambridge, MA http://www.meetup.com/Openstack-Boston/events/63106082/ 10:09 pdurbin maybe someone can go and report back here how it was :) 11:49 pdurbin "The distutils modules is part of the standard library and will be until Python 3.3. . . Unfortunately, the distutils module is riddled with problems, which is why a small group of python developers are working on distutils2. However, until distutils2 is complete. . . [blah blah]. . . distutils will be removed from the standard library." -- http://guide.python-distribute.org/introduction.html#current-state-of-packaging 11:49 pdurbin via ( f o o b a r . l u ) » Blog Archive » A comprehensive guide through Python packaging (a.k.a. setup scripts): http://foobar.lu/wp/2012/05/13/a-comprehensive-step-through-python-packaging-a-k-a-setup-scripts/ 11:50 pdurbin i kind of expected python to be more organized than this. to have one true way, etc. 14:44 pdurbin i'm being asked about best practices for rolling back RPMs. any thoughts on this? 14:45 SEJeff|away pdurbin, Not supported 14:45 SEJeff|away It will have to be very manual 14:45 SEJeff|away check the rpms with rpm -q --scripts $packagename 14:45 SEJeff|away manually undo anything they did 14:45 SEJeff|away if necessary 14:46 SEJeff|away The only package manager that supports rollbacks is conary, that dreadfully slow one (it makes yum without -C look like a mclaren F1 supercar) and the thing with zfs in opensolaris 14:46 SEJeff|away yum downgrade was deprecated I think. 14:46 pdurbin i thought yum or rpm has or had a rollback. will google 14:48 SEJeff|away pdurbin, It is deprecated 14:48 pdurbin "yum history rollback" is listed at https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Pacman_Rosetta 14:48 pdurbin "Rolls entire packages back to a certain date or checkpoint." 14:52 pdurbin SEJeff|away: citation needed :) 14:52 SEJeff|away Well it was officially removed from RHEL4 14:52 SEJeff|away Let me go see if Seth Vidal, the guy who wrote yum is up 14:52 SEJeff|away I'll ask him 14:53 pdurbin access.redhat.com | How to use yum history to roll back an update in Red Hat Enterprise Linux 6? - https://access.redhat.com/knowledge/solutions/64069 14:55 pdurbin Re: [rhelv6-beta-list] yum/rpm repackage and rollback - https://www.redhat.com/archives/rhelv6-beta-list/2010-June/msg00056.html 14:56 SEJeff pdurbin, http://hastebin.com/dunukaqefo.xml 14:57 SEJeff Seth Vidal is the yum maintainer who works for redhat 14:59 pdurbin SEJeff: cool 15:00 pdurbin he's welcome to join the channel if he is so inclined! 15:03 SEJeff pdurbin, Oh and: http://hastebin.com/miluwaqaku.xml 15:03 SEJeff told you, yum / rpm doesn't really do it :) 15:04 SEJeff There is a snapshot plugin however that will take lvm / btrfs snapshots before doing any transactions via yum 15:04 SEJeff but no rollback functionality for that plugin yet 15:04 pdurbin i thought he said history is not a plugin :) 15:05 SEJeff pdurbin, Not the same thing, let me find it 15:05 SEJeff It was written a few fedora releases ago 15:06 SEJeff pdurbin, For reference: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SystemRollbackWithBtrfs and the associated yum plugin: http://lists.baseurl.org/pipermail/yum-devel/2009-December/006347.html 15:08 SEJeff Now conary does true rollbacks: http://wiki.rpath.com/wiki/Conary:conary_rollback 15:10 pdurbin i've never even heard of conary 15:10 SEJeff You've got much to learn my friend :) 15:10 pdurbin used by this, i guess. . . Foresight Linux - Because Your Distro Should be Cool! - http://www.foresightlinux.org/ 15:10 pdurbin SEJeff: i absolutely have much to learn 15:11 SEJeff Yeah Ken Vandine is the guy who got me contributing to GNOME. He made Foresight. conary was actually written for rpath linux. Foresight was the first independent distro to use it. 15:11 pdurbin "the future is here" -- http://www.foresightlinux.org 15:12 SEJeff RPath is one of those companies you want to succeed that fails over and over again unfortunately 15:12 pdurbin i haven't heard of them either. . . 15:12 pdurbin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPath 15:13 SEJeff Founded by some high level redhatters many moons ago before the "JEOS" movement was born 15:13 SEJeff They sort of created JEOS 15:13 SEJeff they being rpath 15:14 SEJeff http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_enough_operating_system Now that you have Fedora, Ubuntu, AND SUSE doing JEOS rebuilds, rpath's business prospects are not so great 15:17 SEJeff conary is like more or less running recursive diff over your entire filesystem. It is dreadfully slow 15:24 pdurbin huh. ok 15:25 pdurbin yeah, rollbacks are definitely highlighted at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conary_%28package_manager%29 15:32 pdurbin puppet does downgrades somehow. . . not sure how. . . Feature #2866: Yum package provider does not allow downgrade - Puppet - Puppet Labs - http://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/2866 15:34 magoo any of you with experience doing a 'backport' in ubuntu? 15:35 magoo I want to backport perl 5.14 from debian sid to work with ubuntu 10.04 15:36 magoo pretty sure that's possible and that that is the preferred approach but I'm a complete noob with a lot of the deb package mgmt stuff 15:38 pdurbin magoo: i don't really have a solution for you, but this came across my radar recently: How do you update your system Perl? | brian d foy [blogs.perl.org] - http://blogs.perl.org/users/brian_d_foy/2012/05/how-do-you-update-your-system-perl.html 15:46 pdurbin from what i can tell, puppet does a `yum downgrade`. that's the "operation" it feeds to yum: https://github.com/puppetlabs/puppet/blob/2be44d40dbccbb54d5ac730cf852d6e067b8c523/lib/puppet/provider/package/yum.rb#L69 15:50 pdurbin magoo: does the latest ubuntu have the perl you want? an lts just came out.. 15:55 pdurbin `yum downgrade` is highly voted up here: http://superuser.com/questions/290596/how-do-i-downgrade-packages-easily-with-yum 15:58 pdurbin `yum history undo` is mentioned at 4.2.6. Working with Transaction History - http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/16/html/System_Administrators_Guide/sec-Yum-Transaction_History.html 15:59 pdurbin "If possible, this command will also attempt to downgrade all updated packages to their previous version, but these older packages may no longer be available. If you need to be able to restore the system to the state before an update, consider using the fs-snapshot plug-in described in Section 4.4.3, “Plug-in Descriptions”. " http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/16/html/System_Administrators_Guide/sec-Plugin_Descriptions.html 15:59 pdurbin which is pretty much what SEJeff was saying :) 16:14 SEJeff yum downgrade is weaksauce 16:14 SEJeff A large number of rpm install / uninstall scriptlets are not designed for this 16:14 SEJeff I'm just letting you know 16:48 magoo pdurbin: thanks for the link... the reason I was asking is that the biggest chunk of time taken in our build process is in compiling perl. This discourages frequent rebuilding in Vagrant which is, of course, not a good thing. I think I'm going to roll my own vagrant and ec2 images with it preinstalled from source 16:50 pdurbin magoo: cool. that works 16:52 magoo i'm really surprised 5.14 hasn't made it as the core perl until this latest release 16:54 pdurbin i've got perl 5.10 on my centos 6 box 17:02 pdurbin "Sputnik is part of an effort by Dell to better understand and serve the needs of developers in Web companies. . . And what better way to do that than beginning with a laptop that is both highly mobile and extremely stylish, running the 12.04 LTS release of Ubuntu Linux." -- http://bartongeorge.net/2012/05/07/introducing-project-sputnik-developer-laptop/ 17:03 magoo read about that the other day. The 'profiles' is a good idea imo - hopefully they pull it off as well as they make it sound 17:12 pdurbin SEJeff: where is it written that `yum downgrade` is deprecated? i can't find it 17:12 SEJeff pdurbin, I can't either, I either imagined it or misread something somewhere 17:12 SEJeff I saw something about it on a mailinglist a few years back 17:13 pdurbin ok 17:13 pdurbin i've long been wary of rolling back packages anyway 17:13 SEJeff But I do stand by my statement re: install scripts totally breaking 17:13 gridiron I recall reading about it as well so you are not insane...well...not mis remembering within your insanity any way. 17:13 SEJeff as they often magically upgrade things 17:13 SEJeff but don't downgrade 17:14 SEJeff gridiron, thanks. I wish I could find it. 17:14 pdurbin sometimes our puppet rpm (on clients) gets updated but puppet seems to downgrade the rpm just fine 17:17 SEJeff I do wish I could find Jesse's source on this: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.devel/43389 17:19 SEJeff """You are arguing that Yum should support RPM downgrades which the Yum developers dont think in a good idea.""". Jesse was the first FPL I believe and is responding to a troll 17:19 gridiron so...poking around about this I found this: http://dougvitale.wordpress.com/2011/12/21/deprecated-linux-networking-commands-and-their-replacements/ 17:20 gridiron netstat? Really? 17:20 SEJeff ss! 17:20 SEJeff ss way > netstat 17:21 pdurbin huh 17:21 SEJeff ss is the only app that will show you connections and how much memory their socket buffers are using 17:22 SEJeff http://linux.die.net/man/8/ss 17:24 SEJeff When troubleshooting apps with thousands or hundreds of thousands of connections and you need to bump up the socket buffers, ss can be a lifesaver 17:24 SEJeff "why don't my apps have enough memory?" 17:30 gridiron Interesting... will save keystrokes. 17:32 gridiron OK... Initial toying says ss is the dogs... but in the CLI way, not the Germany WWII era way 17:33 SEJeff -EDOESNOTCOMPUTE 19:20 pdurbin need to convert some VM's from vmware to kvm. looks like there's some vmware2libvirt script at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-virt/virt-goodies/trunk/annotate/7?file_id=vmware2libvirt-20080527122344-8h0gi0yqx3erefum-4 via http://blog.loftninjas.org/2008/09/08/converting-a-vmware-image-to-kvm/ 19:22 SEJeff pdurbin, qemu-img can convert vmdk vmware files I believe 19:23 SEJeff I've not done that in 4 years, but it does work 19:28 pdurbin right. but what about the xml? shall i hand craft it lovingly? 19:28 pdurbin for `virsh define /path/to/foo.xml` that is 19:28 SEJeff Yeah always a mess :/ 19:28 pdurbin or is there some way to look at some vmware thing and make an xml file out of it? 19:28 SEJeff xml and lovingly don't go int the same sentence 19:28 pdurbin exactly :) 19:28 SEJeff There is a vmware file, but yeah. that sucks 19:30 pdurbin someone in here has the fu 19:30 * pdurbin taps foot 19:36 pdurbin everyone with the fu has left early for drinks before the boston openstack meetup ^^, apparently :)