Time  Nick        Message
10:08 pdurbin     I really wish I could go to this tonight: Boston OpenStack User Group Meetup Wednesday, May 16, 2012 6:30 PM, Harvard University, Maxwell Dworkin Building, Rm 119, 33 Oxford St, Cambridge, MA http://www.meetup.com/Openstack-Boston/events/63106082/
10:09 pdurbin     maybe someone can go and report back here how it was :)
11:49 pdurbin     "The distutils modules is part of the standard library and will be until Python 3.3. . . Unfortunately, the distutils module is riddled with problems, which is why a small group of python developers are working on distutils2. However, until distutils2 is complete. . . [blah blah]. . . distutils will be removed from the standard library." -- http://guide.python-distribute.org/introduction.html#current-state-of-packaging
11:49 pdurbin     via ( f o o b a r . l u ) » Blog Archive » A comprehensive guide through Python packaging (a.k.a. setup scripts): http://foobar.lu/wp/2012/05/13/a-comprehensive-step-through-python-packaging-a-k-a-setup-scripts/
11:50 pdurbin     i kind of expected python to be more organized than this. to have one true way, etc.
14:44 pdurbin     i'm being asked about best practices for rolling back RPMs. any thoughts on this?
14:45 SEJeff|away pdurbin, Not supported
14:45 SEJeff|away It will have to be very manual
14:45 SEJeff|away check the rpms with rpm -q --scripts $packagename
14:45 SEJeff|away manually undo anything they did
14:45 SEJeff|away if necessary
14:46 SEJeff|away The only package manager that supports rollbacks is conary, that dreadfully slow one (it makes yum without -C look like a mclaren F1 supercar) and the thing with zfs in opensolaris
14:46 SEJeff|away yum downgrade was deprecated I think.
14:46 pdurbin     i thought yum or rpm has or had a rollback. will google
14:48 SEJeff|away pdurbin, It is deprecated
14:48 pdurbin     "yum history rollback" is listed at https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Pacman_Rosetta
14:48 pdurbin     "Rolls entire packages back to a certain date or checkpoint."
14:52 pdurbin     SEJeff|away: citation needed :)
14:52 SEJeff|away Well it was officially removed from RHEL4
14:52 SEJeff|away Let me go see if Seth Vidal, the guy who wrote yum is up
14:52 SEJeff|away I'll ask him
14:53 pdurbin     access.redhat.com | How to use yum history to roll back an update in Red Hat Enterprise Linux 6? - https://access.redhat.com/knowledge/solutions/64069
14:55 pdurbin     Re: [rhelv6-beta-list] yum/rpm repackage and rollback - https://www.redhat.com/archives/rhelv6-beta-list/2010-June/msg00056.html
14:56 SEJeff      pdurbin, http://hastebin.com/dunukaqefo.xml
14:57 SEJeff      Seth Vidal is the yum maintainer who works for redhat
14:59 pdurbin     SEJeff: cool
15:00 pdurbin     he's welcome to join the channel if he is so inclined!
15:03 SEJeff      pdurbin, Oh and: http://hastebin.com/miluwaqaku.xml
15:03 SEJeff      told you, yum / rpm doesn't really do it :)
15:04 SEJeff      There is a snapshot plugin however that will take lvm / btrfs snapshots before doing any transactions via yum
15:04 SEJeff      but no rollback functionality for that plugin yet
15:04 pdurbin     i thought he said history is not a plugin :)
15:05 SEJeff      pdurbin, Not the same thing, let me find it
15:05 SEJeff      It was written a few fedora releases ago
15:06 SEJeff      pdurbin, For reference: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SystemRollbackWithBtrfs and the associated yum plugin: http://lists.baseurl.org/pipermail/yum-devel/2009-December/006347.html
15:08 SEJeff      Now conary does true rollbacks: http://wiki.rpath.com/wiki/Conary:conary_rollback
15:10 pdurbin     i've never even heard of conary
15:10 SEJeff      You've got much to learn my friend :)
15:10 pdurbin     used by this, i guess. . . Foresight Linux - Because Your Distro Should be Cool! - http://www.foresightlinux.org/
15:10 pdurbin     SEJeff: i absolutely have much to learn
15:11 SEJeff      Yeah Ken Vandine is the guy who got me contributing to GNOME. He made Foresight. conary was actually written for rpath linux. Foresight was the first independent distro to use it.
15:11 pdurbin     "the future is here" -- http://www.foresightlinux.org
15:12 SEJeff      RPath is one of those companies you want to succeed that fails over and over again unfortunately
15:12 pdurbin     i haven't heard of them either. . .
15:12 pdurbin     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPath
15:13 SEJeff      Founded by some high level redhatters many moons ago before the "JEOS" movement was born
15:13 SEJeff      They sort of created JEOS
15:13 SEJeff      they being rpath
15:14 SEJeff      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_enough_operating_system Now that you have Fedora, Ubuntu, AND SUSE doing JEOS rebuilds, rpath's business prospects are not so great
15:17 SEJeff      conary is like more or less running recursive diff over your entire filesystem. It is dreadfully slow
15:24 pdurbin     huh. ok
15:25 pdurbin     yeah, rollbacks are definitely highlighted at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conary_%28package_manager%29
15:32 pdurbin     puppet does downgrades somehow. . . not sure how. . . Feature #2866: Yum package provider does not allow downgrade - Puppet - Puppet Labs - http://projects.puppetlabs.com/issues/2866
15:34 magoo       any of you with experience doing a 'backport' in ubuntu?
15:35 magoo       I want to backport perl 5.14 from debian sid to work with ubuntu 10.04
15:36 magoo       pretty sure that's possible and that that is the preferred approach but I'm a complete noob with a lot of the deb package mgmt stuff
15:38 pdurbin     magoo: i don't really have a solution for you, but this came across my radar recently: How do you update your system Perl? | brian d foy [blogs.perl.org] - http://blogs.perl.org/users/brian_d_foy/2012/05/how-do-you-update-your-system-perl.html
15:46 pdurbin     from what i can tell, puppet does a `yum downgrade`.  that's the "operation" it feeds to yum: https://github.com/puppetlabs/puppet/blob/2be44d40dbccbb54d5ac730cf852d6e067b8c523/lib/puppet/provider/package/yum.rb#L69
15:50 pdurbin     magoo: does the latest ubuntu have the perl you want? an lts just came out..
15:55 pdurbin     `yum downgrade` is highly voted up here: http://superuser.com/questions/290596/how-do-i-downgrade-packages-easily-with-yum
15:58 pdurbin     `yum history undo` is mentioned at 4.2.6. Working with Transaction History - http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/16/html/System_Administrators_Guide/sec-Yum-Transaction_History.html
15:59 pdurbin     "If possible, this command will also attempt to downgrade all updated packages to their previous version, but these older packages may no longer be available. If you need to be able to restore the system to the state before an update, consider using the fs-snapshot plug-in described in Section 4.4.3, “Plug-in Descriptions”. " http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/16/html/System_Administrators_Guide/sec-Plugin_Descriptions.html
15:59 pdurbin     which is pretty much what SEJeff was saying :)
16:14 SEJeff      yum downgrade is weaksauce
16:14 SEJeff      A large number of rpm install / uninstall scriptlets are not designed for this
16:14 SEJeff      I'm just letting you know
16:48 magoo       pdurbin: thanks for the link... the reason I was asking is that the biggest chunk of time taken in our build process is in compiling perl. This discourages frequent rebuilding in Vagrant which is, of course, not a good thing. I think I'm going to roll my own vagrant and ec2 images with it preinstalled from source
16:50 pdurbin     magoo: cool. that works
16:52 magoo       i'm really surprised 5.14 hasn't made it as the core perl until this latest release
16:54 pdurbin     i've got perl 5.10 on my centos 6 box
17:02 pdurbin     "Sputnik is part of an effort by Dell to better understand and serve the needs of developers in Web companies. . . And what better way to do that than beginning with a laptop that is both highly mobile and extremely stylish, running the 12.04 LTS release of Ubuntu Linux." -- http://bartongeorge.net/2012/05/07/introducing-project-sputnik-developer-laptop/
17:03 magoo       read about that the other day. The 'profiles' is a good idea imo - hopefully they pull it off as well as they make it sound
17:12 pdurbin     SEJeff: where is it written that `yum downgrade` is deprecated? i can't find it
17:12 SEJeff      pdurbin, I can't either, I either imagined it or misread something somewhere
17:12 SEJeff      I saw something about it on a mailinglist a few years back
17:13 pdurbin     ok
17:13 pdurbin     i've long been wary of rolling back packages anyway
17:13 SEJeff      But I do stand by my statement re: install scripts totally breaking
17:13 gridiron    I recall reading about it as well so you are not insane...well...not mis remembering within your insanity any way.
17:13 SEJeff      as they often magically upgrade things
17:13 SEJeff      but don't downgrade
17:14 SEJeff      gridiron, thanks. I wish I could find it.
17:14 pdurbin     sometimes our puppet rpm (on clients) gets updated but puppet seems to downgrade the rpm just fine
17:17 SEJeff      I do wish I could find Jesse's source on this: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.devel/43389
17:19 SEJeff      """You are arguing that Yum should support RPM downgrades which the Yum developers dont think in a good idea.""". Jesse was the first FPL I believe and is responding to a troll
17:19 gridiron    so...poking around about this I found this: http://dougvitale.wordpress.com/2011/12/21/deprecated-linux-networking-commands-and-their-replacements/
17:20 gridiron    netstat? Really?
17:20 SEJeff      ss!
17:20 SEJeff      ss way > netstat
17:21 pdurbin     huh
17:21 SEJeff      ss is the only app that will show you connections and how much memory their socket buffers are using
17:22 SEJeff      http://linux.die.net/man/8/ss
17:24 SEJeff      When troubleshooting apps with thousands or hundreds of thousands of connections and you need to bump up the socket buffers, ss can be a lifesaver
17:24 SEJeff      "why don't my apps have enough memory?"
17:30 gridiron    Interesting... will save keystrokes.
17:32 gridiron    OK... Initial toying says ss is the dogs... but in the CLI way, not the Germany WWII era way
19:20 pdurbin     need to convert some VM's from vmware to kvm. looks like there's some vmware2libvirt script at http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-virt/virt-goodies/trunk/annotate/7?file_id=vmware2libvirt-20080527122344-8h0gi0yqx3erefum-4 via http://blog.loftninjas.org/2008/09/08/converting-a-vmware-image-to-kvm/
19:22 SEJeff      pdurbin, qemu-img can convert vmdk vmware files I believe
19:23 SEJeff      I've not done that in 4 years, but it does work
19:28 pdurbin     right. but what about the xml? shall i hand craft it lovingly?
19:28 pdurbin     for `virsh define /path/to/foo.xml` that is
19:28 SEJeff      Yeah always a mess :/
19:28 pdurbin     or is there some way to look at some vmware thing and make an xml file out of it?
19:28 SEJeff      xml and lovingly don't go int the same sentence
19:28 pdurbin     exactly :)
19:28 SEJeff      There is a vmware file, but yeah. that sucks
19:30 pdurbin     someone in here has the fu
19:30 * pdurbin   taps foot
19:36 pdurbin     everyone with the fu has left early for drinks before the boston openstack meetup ^^, apparently :)