Time Nick Message 00:54 ironcamel pdurbin: sorry, i pointed App::Notes to a private gist, which is normally what you would do, unless you wanted your notes to be public 00:55 ironcamel pdurbin: but just imagine a gist, with multiple files. each new note you make creates a new file in the gitst. 00:55 ironcamel pdurbin: a nice side effect of this is that if you name your note foo.md, the file in the gist on github will get nice markdown formatting if you include markdown in the gist. 00:56 ironcamel pdurbin: or if you name your note foo.pl, it will get perl syntax hilighting, etc. 01:33 pdurbin ironcamel: fancy syntax highlighting is certainly something i haven't pursued with ikiwiki... yet 01:41 pdurbin so i went to that "smashing the stack" talk and it was great 01:42 pdurbin i think shuff had pointed me to this project by the guy who gave it: https://github.com/nelhage/reptyr 01:43 pdurbin http://stuff.mit.edu/iap/2009/exploit/ is full of interesting tidbits 01:43 pdurbin including an older version of his slides: http://stuff.mit.edu/iap/2009/exploit/stack.pdf 01:43 pdurbin and this is full of fun: http://stuff.mit.edu/iap/2009/exploit/stack.tgz 01:46 pdurbin unfortunately, i got there a little late and missed at least 20 minutes :( 01:47 ironcamel reptyr looks great 01:47 ironcamel its for when you forget to start a screen and wish you had, it seems like 01:47 ironcamel though now i never do anything outside of screen 01:47 ironcamel even locally 01:49 pdurbin yeah, i love screen 01:49 pdurbin oh and nelhage works at ksplice, which shuff and whorka will appreciate 01:50 pdurbin ironcamel: you'll appreciate that http://stuff.mit.edu/iap/2009/exploit/stack.tgz is full of perl :) 01:50 ironcamel cool 01:50 pdurbin perl: the hacker's best friend 01:51 pdurbin i told my five year old that i was going to a talk tonight and she asked what it's about 01:51 pdurbin "hacking" 01:51 pdurbin "daddy, what is hacking?" :) 01:52 ironcamel my daughter asks me what do i do all day at work, type in that black screen? haha 01:54 pdurbin i think my greatest achievement was my daughter asking me, "daddy, do you even use a mouse?" 01:54 ironcamel hahaha, awesome 01:55 pdurbin oh, i came across this definition the other day and love it: "hacker: A person who delights in having an intimate understanding of the internal workings of a system, computers and computer networks in particular." -- http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1983 01:56 ironcamel pdurbin: do you have an opinion about using arch linux as a desktop os? 01:56 pdurbin on this laptop i'm on now. . . sure. it's mine 01:57 ironcamel you are running arch right now? 01:57 pdurbin when i switched jobs i decided i really, really wanted my own laptop that's mine. that i can do whatever i want with 01:57 pdurbin nope. fedora 01:57 pdurbin i *could* run arch 01:57 pdurbin of course, that sounds like work :) 01:58 * pdurbin reads http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arch_Linux 01:58 ironcamel i bought a laptop finally to replace my dying desktop. i tried install debian stable, but the kernel of that is still 2.x which doesn't have the wifi drivers i need. i need a 3.x kernel. 01:59 ironcamel i bought a laptop from system76, which came pre-installed with ubuntu. 01:59 ironcamel so i made sure to buy a linux friendly laptop. 01:59 pdurbin pacman, huh? do you like pacman? 01:59 ironcamel i have never used it 01:59 ironcamel don't know anything about it 01:59 ironcamel but am willing to learn :) 02:00 pdurbin so, thomas hatch, who keeps coming up because he's the guy behind salt, is a core dev of arch, i think 02:00 ironcamel and i think i read arch is a rolling release distro 02:00 ironcamel which is nice 02:01 pdurbin i like fedora as a concept 02:01 pdurbin and i'm not damning with faint praise. i think it's a good model 02:01 ironcamel i don't like fedora/rhel package management 02:02 pdurbin no? 02:02 ironcamel don't you agree apt* is better? 02:02 ironcamel i remember using fedora and it taking forever each time i did any yum command 02:02 pdurbin i barely know what i'm doing with ubuntu. see http://wiki.greptilian.com/ubuntu/ 02:03 ironcamel because it talked out to the internet and had to update itself each time 02:03 pdurbin and see http://irclog.perlgeek.de/crimsonfu/2012-04-18#i_5461430 (ventz teaching me ubuntu) 02:04 pdurbin ironcamel: that's what rpm(1) is for, for local operations 02:04 ironcamel i started with fedora, and switched to ubuntu around the time of Feisty Fawn, and remember package management was hugely better, and so i stuck with ubuntu until last year 02:05 ironcamel when they decided they wanted to pull that unity ui crap 02:05 pdurbin and now you're on. . . what? i forget 02:05 pdurbin debian, right? 02:05 ironcamel well, my work latop was linux mint debian edition 02:06 ironcamel which is pretty nice 02:06 ironcamel but i figured i would be more hard core and go with plain debian 02:07 ironcamel pdurbin: so you are using gnome shell? isn't that terrible? 02:07 pdurbin yeah, i've been meaning to try plain debian 02:07 pdurbin i'm using gnome shell right now. it's killing me 02:07 pdurbin but i'm sooooo lazy 02:07 ironcamel LMDE did a really cool thing 02:07 ironcamel they use gnome3 02:07 ironcamel but not gnome shell 02:07 ironcamel they use cinammon 02:07 pdurbin i'd rather complain about gnome 3 than do anything about it ;) 02:08 ironcamel which is a traditional gnome feel, but uses the gnome3 goodness 02:08 ironcamel gnome shell is beautiful, but broken from a usability standpoint 02:08 ironcamel cinammon keeps the beauty, and makes it usable 02:09 pdurbin i guess i'm kinda hoping fedora figures something out. 'cause gnome 3 isn't doing it for me and probably a lot of people 02:09 ironcamel it's really gnome shell that you don't like 02:09 ironcamel gnome3 is just the underpinnings 02:09 pdurbin you're right. i should be more precise 02:10 pdurbin i should try cinammon. i've been told this before. even here in #crimsonfu, i believe 02:10 ironcamel pdurbin: google fedora cinnamon 02:10 pdurbin but maybe, just maybe, gnome shell will be gone or better in the next version of fedora :) 02:10 ironcamel that's what i hoped about unity ui and ubuntu :) 02:11 pdurbin i'm a pretty patient person 02:11 pdurbin patient/lazy 02:11 ironcamel but they just doubled down instead 02:11 pdurbin i don't think 2012 will be the year of the linux desktop 02:12 ironcamel sadly you are most likely right 02:12 pdurbin i wonder how many businesses use rhel for desktops 02:12 pdurbin probably not many 02:12 pdurbin but can you imagine when rhel 7 comes out 02:13 ironcamel no 02:13 pdurbin and all the poor desktop users scream "WTF?" 02:13 ironcamel what is special about rhel 7? 02:14 pdurbin will rhel 7 have gnome shell? i hope not! or i hope it's better 02:15 ironcamel i know at rackspace the majority of devs are running ubuntu, from what i could see 02:15 ironcamel by the way, i am going to be working for crowdtilt.com starting monday 02:16 pdurbin nice. congrats! 02:17 ironcamel thanks 02:17 pdurbin (so the link work: http://crowdtilt.com ) 02:17 pdurbin works 02:17 ironcamel did you have a doubt :) 02:17 pdurbin it's a kickstarter, basically 02:18 ironcamel yep 02:18 ironcamel a kickstarter for normal human beings 02:18 pdurbin i mean it's not linkable from http://irclog.perlgeek.de/crimsonfu/2012-04-26#i_5496963 or gnome-terminal 02:19 pdurbin some guy left my organization a few years ago. said he was going to "myspace for old folks" 02:19 pdurbin or maybe it was "facebook for old folks" 02:19 pdurbin either way, i'm not sure if his company is still around... 02:19 ironcamel heh 02:20 pdurbin "powered by perl dancer"!! 02:20 ironcamel yes! 02:20 pdurbin ok, it all makes sense now 02:20 ironcamel :) 02:20 pdurbin duke leto is doing some interesting startup. hold on 02:21 ironcamel is it the one about teaching kids programming? 02:21 pdurbin Twitter Commerce - http://chirpify.com 02:21 ironcamel i may be thinking of chromatic 02:22 ironcamel that looks interesting 02:22 pdurbin somehow i know duke leto as the guy behind http://search.cpan.org/dist/Math-GSL/ 02:22 pdurbin maybe i heard him on a podcast or something 02:23 ironcamel i think of him as one of the main perl6 guys 02:24 pdurbin yet he's on the jekyll (ruby) mailing list. anyway 02:24 ironcamel i follow him on twitter. though i don't pay attention to twitter anymore since i started using g+ 02:25 pdurbin twitter's killer feature is the @reply 02:25 ironcamel i don't have enough bandwidth :) 02:25 ironcamel how so? 02:25 pdurbin i can write 02:25 ironcamel doesn't every tool on the internet have @reply 02:25 pdurbin @ironcamel check out this cool thing... 02:25 ironcamel every social type app has that feature 02:25 pdurbin and pretty much no one will see it, unless they are following you too 02:26 ironcamel no, not even if they were following me 02:26 ironcamel only if they were following you 02:27 pdurbin i'm not being clear. i had a name for this. twitter allows eavesdropping, basically, which is cool 02:27 pdurbin people can @reply back and forth and not bother anyone. but others can listen in if they want to 02:28 ironcamel wouldn't you have to be following all participants in order to listen in? 02:29 pdurbin here. compare Philip Durbin - Google+ - This is for +Naveed Massjouni per… - https://plus.google.com/107770072576338242009/posts/TbK2cGSfN73 02:29 ironcamel and why would you care about listening in to a shallow conversation, which is all that twitter allows 02:29 pdurbin to (hold on) 02:30 ironcamel i have been involved in epic conversations on g+, with people who were extremely thoughtful and intelligent, which showed in bascially the essays the would write in their responses 02:30 pdurbin Twitter / @philipdurbin: @ironcamel i have a vague ... - http://twitter.com/philipdurbin/status/178517701797494784 02:30 ironcamel i like the first example because it is self contained 02:31 pdurbin but it's not about containment 02:31 ironcamel we can use it to collaborate on a certain topic 02:31 ironcamel and everything about it can be found in that thread 02:31 pdurbin for me, the main difference is that eveyone who is following me on g+ sees the g plus post 02:31 ironcamel instead of shotgunned throughout twitter 02:31 pdurbin but on twitter, only the people who are following both you and me see the tweet 02:32 ironcamel you can control who sees your posts very easily on g+ 02:32 pdurbin yeah, but i'm a "when in doubt, make it public" guy 02:33 pdurbin i don't want to lock up content in any walled garden, even g+, generally 02:33 ironcamel yeah, i default to public as well 02:33 pdurbin so with twitter, at least i can message someone semi-privately. less broadcast-y 02:34 pdurbin i @replied at the guy who have the security talk: http://twitter.com/philipdurbin/status/195321399110410241 02:35 pdurbin but almost no one will see it. he may not either 02:35 ironcamel wouldn't everyone who follows you see it? 02:35 pdurbin but at least there's a little public record of me thanking him :) 02:35 pdurbin no, that's the thing. that's the point, exactly 02:35 ironcamel please explain 02:36 pdurbin once upon a time, when twitter was new, there was no concept of @replies 02:36 pdurbin the @ character was like any other 02:36 pdurbin but the company noticed that users had adopted the @ convention 02:37 pdurbin users would write: 02:37 pdurbin @ironcamel, we should have lunch 02:37 pdurbin and everyone would see it 02:37 pdurbin everyone who is following me, that is 02:37 pdurbin but then twitter flipped a switch 02:38 pdurbin and made is so if i typed the same thing 02:38 pdurbin @ironcamel, we should have lunch 02:38 pdurbin the only people who see it are people who are following both me and you 02:39 ironcamel interesting, i was not aware of that new behavior 02:39 ironcamel so if you @reply multiple people 02:39 ironcamel statisticly, very few or 0 other people will see it? 02:39 ironcamel since they would have to be following all of the people that you @replied? 02:40 pdurbin so what matters is how the tweet begins 02:41 ironcamel ah 02:41 pdurbin so this one for example: 02:41 pdurbin "@ironcamel i have a vague notion of rewriting @lastminuteplans on @github with @perldancer on @openshift. want to help? http://builditwith.me/idea/7bK0" 02:42 ironcamel i still don't see it as a huge win. just seems like a side effect of an outdated technology. 02:42 pdurbin heh. fine 02:42 ironcamel a technology that won't go away because of the mindshare it has acquired 02:42 pdurbin but what other service let's me do this 02:42 pdurbin ? 02:43 ironcamel i'm not sure, but if i told you there is an email service that had this exact feature 02:43 pdurbin but email isn't public... 02:43 ironcamel but your emails could only be 140 chars long. would you sign up for this service? 02:44 ironcamel imagine it was a new type of email that had this exact property, hybrid public/private messages 02:44 pdurbin it's not about the character length. it's about having it be public, having it be "of the web" 02:44 pdurbin having a permalink for the message i send to someone 02:44 pdurbin having it be indexable by google 02:44 ironcamel permalinks to shallow thoughts are not a big win in my book 02:45 ironcamel not accusing you of being shallow 02:45 pdurbin meh. i dunno. it's data. it's signal 02:45 ironcamel but saying the limitation of the technology by definition causes that 02:46 pdurbin but someone could build a service with the same @reply behavior. . . and have as many characters as you want 02:47 pdurbin but only twitter has this behavior 02:47 pdurbin (i'd be happy to be proven wrong) 02:47 ironcamel sure, they could 02:48 ironcamel but people most likely are not clamoring for this feature 02:48 ironcamel most people probably are not aware of this feature 02:48 pdurbin heh. certainly not 02:48 ironcamel just as i was not 02:48 ironcamel not saying it's not a cool feature :) 02:49 pdurbin oh good, i was looking for this: Twitter Blog: How @replies work on Twitter (and how they might) - http://blog.twitter.com/2008/05/how-replies-work-on-twitter-and-how.html 02:51 pdurbin "The beauty of this is that I can feel free to @reply Veronica without worrying about the fact that only a subset of my followers also follow Veronica, so they won't know what I'm talking about. My followers will only see my update if they follow both of us (if they have their setting on the default)." 02:51 pdurbin (that setting is now gone, by the way. they had to remove it for performance reasons, as i understand it.) 02:52 ironcamel if you @reply @ironcamel for example, could people who don't follow me but follow you still be able to see that tweet somehow? how? 02:52 pdurbin sure, if they went to http://twitter.com/philipdurbin 02:52 pdurbin or if they subscribed to the rss feed of my tweets 02:52 ironcamel but it wouldn't show up in their stream when it happened right? 02:52 pdurbin exactly! 02:52 ironcamel i see 02:53 ironcamel what if you wanted it to show up in everyone's stream? 02:53 pdurbin so it's a cool feature. and unique to twitter 02:53 pdurbin then, then! 02:53 ironcamel how would you @reply me? 02:53 pdurbin you type this 02:53 pdurbin .@ironcamel, you da man 02:53 ironcamel .? 02:53 pdurbin or any character 02:53 ironcamel space? 02:53 pdurbin hmm, i guess 02:53 ironcamel cool 02:53 pdurbin the magic is in @ being the first character 02:54 pdurbin and! 02:54 pdurbin when i do this 02:54 pdurbin .@ironcamel foo 02:54 pdurbin this is no longer an @reply 02:54 pdurbin it's an @mention 02:54 pdurbin :) 02:55 pdurbin i was looking at this tweet the other day: "@Cisco is looking to hire #Linux kernel hackers for high performance networking work. Interested? Ping me." -- https://twitter.com/jsquyres/status/192583814554451968 02:56 pdurbin and thought to myself, "this guy doesn't know how @replies work" 02:56 ironcamel hahaha 02:56 ironcamel you are a twitter snob :) 02:56 pdurbin "shoulda put a dot at the beginning..." 02:56 pdurbin heh 02:56 pdurbin the funny thing is... 02:56 pdurbin i follow that guy! 02:56 pdurbin but i didn't see that tweet because i don't follow @cisco 02:56 ironcamel so how did you see that? 02:57 ironcamel you happened to view his stream? 02:57 pdurbin 'cause this guy retweeted it: https://twitter.com/brockpalen 02:57 pdurbin i could find you a permalink to his specific retweet. it's possible. but meh. trust me 02:58 ironcamel i trust you 02:58 pdurbin Twitter / @danchoi: my ideal social network is ... - https://twitter.com/#!/philipdurbin/status/147197198550040578 02:59 pdurbin that's an example of a permalink to a retweet 02:59 pdurbin "my ideal social network is where everyone maintains plain text files in a git repo and friends can pull the diffs periodically" 02:59 ironcamel hehe 02:59 ironcamel man, but what about conflicts 03:00 ironcamel merge conflicts 03:00 pdurbin lol 03:01 pdurbin anyway, i guess i should type up my git/rcs question thing. or go to sleep 03:02 ironcamel what is rcs? 03:02 pdurbin heh 03:02 ironcamel tell me that and then go to sleep :) 03:02 pdurbin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revision_Control_System 03:03 pdurbin Initial release 1982; 30 years ago 03:03 ironcamel ah 03:03 pdurbin see yesterday's #crimsonfu log for more :) 03:06 ironcamel pdurbin: you may get a couple new people from crowdtilt joining this channel 03:07 ironcamel i recommended it to them 03:07 * dsog works at Crowdtilt :) 03:10 dsog westmaas: yo yo 03:12 ironcamel westmaas is a lurker :) 03:12 dsog I see how it is.. :p 13:52 pdurbin dsog: welcome! please feel free to introduce yourself if you like. or don't. up to you :) 15:35 dsog pdurbin: Thanks :). 15:35 dsog My name is Khaled and I work at Crowdtilt. I used to work with westmaas and ironcamel at Rackspace before starting Crowdtilt. 15:36 dsog I've heard nothing but great stuff about you guys and would love to hang out here and talk geek stuff or whatever other stuff people talk about :). 15:38 westmaas dsog: ! 15:38 westmaas :) 15:40 dsog Yo .. how is it going man? 15:41 westmaas doing good 15:41 pdurbin dsog: you are welcome to be a geek with us :) 15:43 pdurbin i happy to have more non-Harvard people here. i want more diversity, generally 15:43 pdurbin s/i/i'm/ 15:45 dsog Is the majority here Harvard people? 15:48 * SEJeff_work is in finance 15:48 SEJeff_work The "high frequency trading" space 15:52 pdurbin dsog: yeah, the majority. . . right now anyway 15:53 pdurbin tell your friends to join :) 15:54 SEJeff_work http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/cto/2977737272.html Random OT, but best car ad on craigslist eva 15:54 dsog pdurbin: I know that you'll get about 2-3 guys from Crowdtilt. 15:54 pdurbin dsog: let's just not make it too perl-heavy :) though i love perl... 15:54 pdurbin SEJeff_work: no fun allowed 15:55 dsog pdurbin: It probably won't be too perl-heavy. I can see it being more about networking .. deployments .. etc. 15:55 dsog For me .. I am just here for the lolz ;). 15:55 pdurbin Stack Overflow: Where We Hate Fun « Blog – Stack Exchange - http://blog.stackoverflow.com/2010/01/stack-overflow-where-we-hate-fun/ 15:55 SEJeff_work pdurbin, No fun? boo 15:55 SEJeff_work what kind of SA are you? 15:56 pdurbin a grumpy one 15:56 SEJeff_work Well thats the only kind to be! Quickly solved with beer 16:07 dsog pdurbin: magoo_ is another Crowdtilt hacker. 16:07 dsog magoo_: meet everyone :) 16:08 magoo_ hey guys! 16:10 pdurbin magoo_: welcome! this is me: http://crimsonfu.github.com/members/pdurbin 16:11 magoo_ pdurbin: damn, nice directory :) 16:35 SEJeff_work pdurbin, Oh fyi tom did some insane bugfixing in salt 16:35 SEJeff_work And it going to release 0.9.9 this weekend 16:36 SEJeff_work It has some serious minion / master bugfixing for large environments. All of the hangs and disconnect issues *should* be fixed. There are a ton more unti tests now as well 16:54 pdurbin SEJeff_work: awesome. thanks for the heads up. /cc sjoeboo 16:54 SEJeff_work pdurbin, sjoeboo The point of the 0.9.9 release really was bugfixing for bigger deployments 16:55 SEJeff_work And some nice new features as usual 16:55 pdurbin at ~1700 hosts, are we big? 16:55 SEJeff_work Mid-sized 16:55 pdurbin \o/ 16:56 SEJeff_work We have a 3800 host deployment which /me thinks is our biggest at $does_not_want_to_be_named_company 16:57 sjoeboo but do they have 18K+ cores? 16:57 SEJeff_work heh 16:57 SEJeff_work They have closer to 40k cores 16:58 sjoeboo bah 17:57 ironcamel I found a new love. I installed arch linux on my laptop last night. Installation was a breeze and everything just worked. I had been hesitant to try it because I was afraid it would have been hard. 17:58 dsog ironcamel: How long did it take? 17:58 ironcamel And I have the latest greatest of everything by default, perl 5.14.2 , kernel 3.3.3.1 ... 17:58 dsog The installation I mean .. last time I tried it and it was compiling everything from scratch .. it took sometime. 17:58 ironcamel dsog: are you thinking of gentoo? 17:58 dsog maybe ;) 17:58 ironcamel AND it's a rolling release distro 18:00 ironcamel dsog: it took a good 4 hours, since i was learning a lot along the way, to get installed and get set up in a workable state 18:00 ironcamel and reading wiki's, etc. they have tons of great documentation and step by step tutorials 18:04 ironcamel pdurbin: did you try App::Notes yet? 18:05 SEJeff_work ironcamel, Other than it isn't a rolling distro, the same can be said for fedora 18:06 SEJeff_work Fedora 17 beta: perl-5.14.2-211.fc17.x86_64.rpm, kernel-3.3.0-1.fc17.x86_64.rpm 18:06 SEJeff_work But arch is good stuff 18:06 ironcamel SEJeff_work: cool, i didn't know fedora was that bleeding edge 18:06 SEJeff_work Yes, very 18:07 SEJeff_work ironcamel, For Arch, may I point out: https://github.com/thatch45/archback if you want to manage your own arch repos 18:07 ironcamel fedora was my first linux distro. what turned me away from it was it's package management 18:07 SEJeff_work rpm is superior to deb as a format. 18:07 ironcamel yum would take forever to do anything. it would go out and talk to the internets for every command 18:08 SEJeff_work yum is superior to apt, but slower 18:08 ironcamel in what way is yum superior? 18:08 SEJeff_work Hello deltarpm (yum presto plugin), yum-fastestmirror 18:08 SEJeff_work to name a few 18:08 SEJeff_work multarch 18:08 SEJeff_work which neither apt or deb as a format really support yet 18:08 SEJeff_work I can go on :) 18:09 magoo_ plus I'm a big fan of yum provides x 18:09 magoo_ maybe you can do that with apt 18:09 SEJeff_work The only thing meh about yum is that it does the equiv of "apt-get update" every single time before you do any operations 18:09 ironcamel apt has a nice feature, when you delete a package, it can delete its deps for you, as long as others also are not depending on them. can yum do that? 18:10 SEJeff_work ironcamel, package-cleanup in the yum-utils package does that 18:10 ironcamel i mean when you delete a specific package 18:10 SEJeff_work automatically, no 18:10 ironcamel apt will do the cleanup then 18:10 SEJeff_work apt really only has 2 things over yum at all 18:11 SEJeff_work updating the repo metadata is a separate operation so it *appears* faster for those that don't do yum -C 18:11 ironcamel the whole "apt-get update" every single time is a big pain don't you agree? 18:11 SEJeff_work deb as a format has optional dependencies 18:11 SEJeff_work thats awesome 18:11 SEJeff_work rpm doesn't 18:11 SEJeff_work ironcamel, alias yum="yum -C" 18:11 SEJeff_work problem solved, I've moved on :) 18:11 ironcamel ah, neat 18:11 agperson SEJeff_work: thanks for the tip 18:12 SEJeff_work but those are the only two areas apt is better. Overall apt and dpkg are far inferior to yum/rpm. 18:12 SEJeff_work agperson, I get paid to do this. Just try to share my knowledge with others if it is helpful. 18:12 SEJeff_work ironcamel, Then when you do want to update your metadata, you can do: yum makecache 18:12 SEJeff_work functional equiv of apt-get update 18:13 SEJeff_work And if I blabber, just tell me to shutup. It won't be scene as offensive 18:13 SEJeff_work seen even 18:14 ironcamel don't worry, i like to learn as much about package management as i can 18:14 agperson having never packaged a .deb, i can't disagree with you :) 18:14 ironcamel i have packaged lots of rpms 18:14 dsog SEJeff_work: This is very helpful .. thanks :). 18:15 SEJeff_work agperson, oh wow... Packaging a debian package is pain, just pain 18:15 ironcamel and i it is a pretty ugly process imo 18:15 SEJeff_work glad to help :) 18:15 ironcamel have never created debs though 18:15 magoo_ do either of you know if there's an apt equivalent to 'yum provides */somefile' 18:15 SEJeff_work dget, dch, dput, dpkg-buildpackage, pbuilder... vs rpmbuild and tar 18:15 SEJeff_work magoo_, apt-file 18:15 ironcamel magoo_: what does yum provides do again? 18:15 SEJeff_work install apt-file then do sudo apt-file update and apt-file search */somefile 18:15 magoo_ ha! cool 18:15 SEJeff_work yum ftw there 18:15 ironcamel i was learning pacman (from arch) last night and it seems decent as well 18:15 magoo_ it tells you teh package that owns the file 18:16 magoo_ ironcamel: ^ 18:16 magoo_ very handy 18:16 SEJeff_work magoo_, and rpm -qf $(which somecommand) 18:16 SEJeff_work vs dpkg -S, which doesn't really work 1/2 the time 18:16 magoo_ if it's installed 18:16 ironcamel magoo_: oh, you can do that with dpkq-query i believe 18:16 SEJeff_work right 18:16 ironcamel dpkq-query -Sf 18:16 magoo_ ironcamel: if it's installed 18:16 SEJeff_work apt-file does it :) 18:16 magoo_ regardless, I didn't know about either command 18:16 magoo_ so thanks :) 18:16 SEJeff_work I do like apt-cache madison $package 18:17 SEJeff_work very weird name, but useful. I don't think there is a simple yum equiv 18:17 ironcamel magoo_: is it a big deal if you have to install it? 18:17 SEJeff_work what if you don't know the package name 18:17 SEJeff_work thats the point of doing it with yum :) 18:17 ironcamel i have never had to install dpkq-query that i can remember, its usually there, but i could be wrong 18:17 magoo_ yes, this is the scenario 18:18 magoo_ you don't know the package but you know the file it would provide 18:18 magoo_ I run into this many times 18:18 SEJeff_work Isn't dpkg-query equiv to dpkg? You can do dpkg -Sf 18:18 magoo_ ironcamel: so to answer your question, not a big deal to install it, if you know what to install 18:19 SEJeff_work looks like no it isn't. ironcamel I didn't know dpkg-query -Sf. Thanks! 18:19 ironcamel magoo_: btw, it is just dpkg-query -S 18:19 ironcamel dpkg-query -S /etc/vim/vimrc 18:19 SEJeff_work Another thing. rpm -V is very handy when you have a messed up package and want to see what has changed at a glance 18:19 SEJeff_work debsums will do the md5, but nothing else 18:19 ironcamel SEJeff_work: looks like dpkg -S /etc/vim/vimrc works as well :) 18:20 SEJeff_work Yeah but it is more vague 18:20 SEJeff_work sometimes returns multiple packages or a "best guess" 18:20 SEJeff_work On the LPIC-1 a few years ago, I got 100% on package management 18:20 SEJeff_work Errr almost 4 years ago when I took that 18:22 magoo_ ironcamel: sweet, that works. did you understand the scenario i was talking about though? 18:22 magoo_ about to try out apt-file 18:22 SEJeff_work apt-file update requires root 18:22 SEJeff_work apt-file search does not 18:22 ironcamel magoo_: yeah, that is exactly what i use dpkq-query -S for 18:23 ironcamel the other command i use is dpkq-query -L 18:23 magoo_ but dpkg operates on installed packages 18:23 ironcamel to list files of a package. it is kinda the reverse of -S 18:23 SEJeff_work dpkg -L is equiv to rpm -ql 18:23 SEJeff_work and dpkg -l is rpm -qa 18:24 ironcamel yeah, i use rpm -qa and rpm -qf a lot 18:24 SEJeff_work indeed 18:24 SEJeff_work rpm -qf $(which foo) <3 18:24 magoo_ right, the scenario I'm referring to is that you don't have a package installed that provides x, you don't know what the package is called, but you know what x is called 18:24 magoo_ that's when i use yum provides 18:24 SEJeff_work magoo_, If you find a way outside of apt-file to do that on debian-ish systems please let me know. I would be interested in learning it. 18:24 ironcamel magoo_: ah. and dpkg cant do that for you? 18:24 magoo_ and apt-file is what provides that 18:24 SEJeff_work yes 18:25 magoo_ ironcamel: i can't imagine it could 18:25 magoo_ since it'll only operate on _installed_ pkgs 18:25 SEJeff_work ironcamel, it only operates on locally installed packages 18:25 ironcamel magoo_: apt-file will do that for you? 18:25 SEJeff_work yes 18:25 ironcamel cool 18:25 magoo_ yeah, i'm about to try it too 18:25 magoo_ took forever to update the cache 18:27 magoo_ ie. apt-file search /usr/bin/tcpflow 18:27 magoo_ tcpflow: /usr/bin/tcpflow 18:27 ironcamel sweet 18:27 magoo_ yeah, this is awesome - i've realy missed this command from yum 18:28 ironcamel magoo_: what are you running in production? 18:28 ironcamel ubuntu? 18:28 magoo_ yes 18:29 ironcamel magoo_: is that the main thing you missed from yum? 18:29 magoo_ yeah 18:30 magoo_ everything else translated mostly 18:31 magoo_ i tend to remember file names more than package names so I relied on that command quite a bit in redhat/fedora 18:32 SEJeff_work apt-file search /usr/bin/cowsay 18:32 magoo_ btw, the tcpflow command, in the example I gave above is the best thing since sliced bread 18:32 magoo_ just sayin :) 18:32 ironcamel tcpflow is the best thing? 18:32 ironcamel what does it do? 18:33 ironcamel or apt-file search is the best thign? 18:33 magoo_ tcpflow 18:34 magoo_ it wraps tcpdump and separates out individual streams of communication into separate files for the criteria you specify (src port, interface, etc) 18:35 ironcamel nice 18:36 ironcamel apt-file takes forever to build its cache, it just finished 18:36 pdurbin sorry, not following closely (doing real work), but a nice trick with yum is `yum install /usr/bin/screen` 18:36 ironcamel neat 18:36 pdurbin in this case, the package is also called "screen", so it's a dumb example. but if you know the path to a file owned by a package, that's all you need to install it 18:36 magoo_ wha? 18:36 magoo_ you can just provide the file? 18:37 magoo_ nice 18:37 pdurbin don't take my word for it :) 18:37 pdurbin are there any answered "can yum do x" questions? 18:38 SEJeff_work Someone should do that in the style of: http://whygitisbetterthanx.com 18:38 pdurbin heh 18:39 pdurbin ironcamel: i love that you care so much about package management when choosing your distro. i think decent package management is one of linux's best innovations 18:40 ironcamel pdurbin: thanks. yeah, package management is the main difference between distros isn't it? 18:40 ironcamel that, and maybe philosophy/community 18:41 pdurbin check this out. my old college roommate and good friend, a windows developer, discovering linux package management: http://devlicio.us/blogs/billy_mccafferty/archive/2009/10/29/the-horn-project-bringing-quot-apt-get-install-quot-to-net-projects.aspx 18:41 pdurbin "looks to see what dependencies the application has, downloads the latest of all of them, and installs them as well before installing the target application. It does all of that with just one command line" 18:41 pdurbin it's like a miracle :) 18:42 pdurbin i should get him in #crimsonfu. more diversity. a windows guy 18:42 ironcamel SEJeff_work: the "Easy to learn" item on http://whygitisbetterthanx.com/ i just WRONG :) 18:42 ironcamel s/i just/is just/ 18:43 magoo_ pdurbin: it'll just make him sad 18:43 ironcamel haha 18:43 SEJeff_work heh, thats not a discussion I'd want to get into 18:43 SEJeff_work git is easy enough for a smart person to learn, however it has a higher learning curve than hg, svn, or bzr 18:44 agperson its not as easy as saying "ilke subversion (or CVS) but X", though 18:44 SEJeff_work Nope 18:44 SEJeff_work http://www.digitalprognosis.com/pics/unix-editor-learning-curve.png 18:44 SEJeff_work git is like vi ^^ 18:45 agperson at least its not like emacs! 18:45 SEJeff_work Once you use git rebase -i or git bisect run, git will solve world hunger 18:45 SEJeff_work s/use/learn/ 18:45 pdurbin heh. great graphic 18:45 SEJeff_work Yup I try to save funny ones from the internets there 18:46 ironcamel they should make a learning curve graph for scripting languages ... python would have the Notepad learning curve 18:46 SEJeff_work ha 18:46 ironcamel perl would be more like the emacs one :) 18:46 SEJeff_work that would be lisp I'd think 18:47 ironcamel yes 18:47 SEJeff_work emacs is lisp too so thats fitting 18:50 pdurbin qemu-img convert -O qcow2 -o preallocation=metadata /var/lib/libvirt/images/pdurbin1-disk0 /var/lib/libvirt/images/pdurbin1-disk0.qcow 18:50 pdurbin qcow ftw 18:55 pdurbin ironcamel: i haven't tried App::Notes yet 18:57 pdurbin the guy at the security talk highly recommended this paper. great title. Hovav Shacham: The Geometry of Innocent Flesh on the Bone - http://cseweb.ucsd.edu/~hovav/papers/s07.html 19:00 pdurbin i just heard the new ubuntu is out 19:06 ironcamel pffft 19:13 SEJeff_work http://xkcd.com/178/ 19:15 SEJeff_work pdurbin, Thats one of my favs ^ 19:16 ironcamel am i missing something about pokemon and ubuntu? 19:32 pdurbin no one cares? 19:35 pdurbin Ubuntu 12.04 (Precise Pangolin) released! - https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2012-April/000159.html 20:06 magoo_ well, I'll probably upgrade my htpc... but that's about the extent of it